Gene Edwards: I’m glad you’re all here. Welcome.

 

All: Thank you

 

Gene Edwards: Welcome to this table. We’re going to talk about southern song writers, and thanks to the kindness of Millsaps College, three Mississippi southern song writers have gathered here at the table today. It’s great. Glad to have you here.

 

Garrison Starr: Thank you.

 

Molly Thomas: Thank you.

 

Gene Edwards: And you all have been riding around in my truck with me for the last few weeks. I’ve been hearing your songs. I guess that’s where your songs should be heard, isn’t it? Don’t you think?

 

Garrison Starr: In your truck?

 

Gene Edwards: In somebody’s truck.

 

Neilson Hubbard: Absolutely

 

Garrison Starr: Absolutely

 

Molly Thomas: Definitely.

 

Gene Edwards: Don’t you think certain songs are made to be truck songs and other songs are… Where did you start writing songs?  

 

Garrison Starr: I started writing songs in my bedroom. On Bibb Street in Hernando, Mississippi.

 

Gene Edwards: And you were how old?

 

Garrison Starr: I was little I was always doing something. I was always creating, and  like, you know, I would gather my stuffed animals together and preach to them. I’d like be working on my car, which was my bed, with my little doctor’s kit, like under the. I had imaginary friends—Stephanie and Laura Lee were my two imaginary friends and so I was always doing something. And I would write crazy songs with drumsticks on my bed and you know, I’d play to the records.

 

Gene Edwards: Was, was you family musical?

 

Garrison Starr: No, not at all. Like, my dad couldn’t sing his way out of a paper bag and my mom has always aspired to play piano, and she’s worked her whole life and like she never had time to do all that. But she did push me to take piano lessons, of course, which I actually am grateful for. I wish I had stuck with that because now I play by ear and when I sit down to play the piano, it’s like, “Dinky dinky branh.” And I’m like, “Oh you can’t use that note!” I don’t really know. I don’t know exactly what notes go in a chord so it like I have to just…

 

Molly Thomas: I heard you play last night back stage. I thought it sounded great.

 

Garrison Starr: That’s because it was in the key of C.

 

Molly Thomas: Oh.

 

Neilson Hubbard: All white keys.

 

Garrison Starr: Because it’s all white keys, I could tinkle. See, man, I fooled you.

 

Gene Edwards: The white keys. You’re okay.

 

Garrison Starr: I could be like (makes song noises)

 

Gene Edwards: But you begin mixing those black ones you’re in…

 

Garrison Starr: Black keys freak me out.

 

Neilson Hubbard: Just stay in C.

 

Garrison Starr: Yeah.

 

Molly Thomas: Or you could just stay in all black keys, and all the black keys are…

 

Garrison Starr: Well, looking at the piano, like the piano just makes no sense to me. Like guitar always just made sense from like sitting down and playing it for the first time. It was like, oh yeah, but piano, it just confounds me. I have no idea. I don’t understand it at all.

 

Gene Edwards: Everything makes sense to you. How many instruments do you play?

 

Molly Thomas: Well, I don’t claim to…

 

Garrison Starr: You can’t even remember you play so many.

 

Gene Edwards: How many instruments could you could you fake it on, really?

 

Molly Thomas: Okay, the reason there are so many instruments listed on my record is because I kind of took the approach of, you know, use what you have. And I didn’t have the resources, the money resources to go out and hire people to come in so I said, “Well, I’ll just figure it out myself.” So um I am a violinist. That’s my main instrument is the violin. And I play guitar and piano, but I’m not, you know, Jack of all Trades, Master of None is kind of my…

 

Gene Edwards: But do they all make sense to you? I mean…

 

Molly Thomas: Oh, that was the question.

 

Gene Edwards: So you heard Garrison say that the piano didn’t make sense. Do other, do other…

 

Molly Thomas: They do make sense? Yeah. They, I don’t know why, but they do. I think in intervals. I play, I play by ear and also I play, read music, but I started off playing by ear as a small child.

 

Gene Edwards: See I think for some people it just makes sense. For other people will, will just never figure it out.

 

Molly Thomas: Yeah.

 

Gene Edwards: Did it always make sense for you?

 

Neilson Hubbard: Well, I mean not like what she’s talking about. I mean, it seems like someone who’s, a violin, like that type of string instrument’s so complex that most of the time when I find, when I see people who play a string instrument like that, they’re always so musical, they’re so musical. For me, I mean, all my ear and no, no um no training at all, so… The piano does make more sense to me than the guitar even though I started on guitar because it’s laid out, you know, like when you’re up here, you’re higher than you are when you’re down here. Whereas guitar, it starts over in different places like so, I, I, I don’t…

 

Gene Edwards: So I don’t understand… If, if you play by ear and you hear everything up here and you just kind of do it… How do you write songs? How do you get them down on paper? How do you make it all…

 

Molly Thomas: Oh gosh.

 

Neilson Hubbard: You just have to remember them and then, you know, hopefully get them on tape soon enough so it, so it doesn’t go away.

 

Gene Edwards: They say that Red Skelton, you know who Red Skelton was, the comedian who was on, used to write symphonies. And he wrote them by singing out at his pool and then somebody would translate all that

 

Garrison Starr: It’s all, all about the melody.

 

Molly Thomas: My teacher always used to say, Dr. Lucktenberg at Southern, she used to say if you can sing it, if you can hum it, you can play it. So we would have to memorize our songs, our pieces that we were working on by..

 

Gene Edwards: By humming

 

Molly Thomas: By humming them, and then also we would have to say the note at the same time as we hummed it. It was, it was insane. I never got very good at that.

 

Gene Edwards: No?

 

Molly Thomas: I think I changed my major very soon after that.

 

Gene Edwards: Tell me about being onstage at Millsaps last night, in that auditorium.

 

Molly Thomas: It was really nice, very nice. The acoustics were really amazing.

 

Gene Edwards: What’s the last time you were there?

 

Molly Thomas: Last time I was there, was, actually my sister, my sister graduated from Millsaps, and she did her, her senior recital there and I played violin with her.

 

Gene Edwards: Did you audition?

 

Molly Thomas: Oh, I auditioned and I think he had the information wrong last night because he said it was Jackson Symphony. I never got that far. It was for the Jackson Youth City Orchestra.

 

Garrison Starr: He made you sound good, Dude.

 

Neilson Hubbard: It sounded good, though.

 

Gene Edwards: Oh, oh, okay, well that’s Wow! You felt pretty inferior.

 

Garrison Starr: Yeah, I was like, “Garrison Starr played in a stinky, sweaty rock club last night, seven people. Molly Thomas…”

 

Gene Edwards: Molly was up there with them.

 

Molly Thomas: Yeah, no. Wrong facts.

 

Gene Edwards: So what did it feel like to be on that stage? Your family is a part of that?

 

Molly Thomas: Well, I was really nervous. Yeah, my, my entire family went to Millsaps, except for me, and so it was a little intim… I was always a little intimidated by the academics growing up because there was so much, I felt, pressure. Because everybody was so smart in my family, and I didn’t do so well in school, and well, but so and my father had been on the board of trustees. He recently passed away, but he was on the board of trustees for many years and so it was it was really nice being there and it just felt, just a real spiritual thing, you know, because I’m so connected in many, in different areas, in different ways.

 

Gene Edwards: Two kids from Jackson playing there at Millsaps.

 

Neilson Hubbard: Yeah. It’s nice. Great place.

 

Gene Edwards: Did you always know that this was what you wanted to do?

 

Neilson Hubbard: I always enjoyed singing and my mom was in a band for, I mean, she still is in a band, actually. So, they play covers.

 

Garrison Starr: Oh my!

 

Neilson Hubbard: And every now, about three times a year, she’ll go out and I’ll go see them. And she’s like, “What do you think? Are we getting good?” I’m like, “Well, you know.” But I just remember going to the band practices when I was like eight or nine and just seeing all the gear laying out and that’s actually what I do now. Mostly, I’m producing more than I’m doing anything. And I’m just surrounded by gear all the time, so I think that’s just what I always loved was just seeing all the stuff laid out and the mics and all the, you know, what’s creating the music with the people. But yeah, I always had an interest in doing talent shows and things like that.

 

Gene Edwards: First song you wrote was?

 

Neilson Hubbard: Was a really bad song called “Coming Home” about a girlfriend in eleventh grade or…

 

Gene Edwards: First song you wrote was?

 

Garrison Starr: “Don’t Throw Your Head.” I was probably about five or four.

 

Gene Edwards: “Don’t Throw Your Head.”

 

Garrison Starr: “Drumsticks On My Bed.” It was just called “Don’t Throw Your Head.” My mom used to have it on tape, like cassette and then they lost it. Yeah “Don’t Throw Your Head.”

 

Gene Edwards: You still remember it? No?

 

Garrison Starr: I’ve tried really hard. It was something about like “Don’t throw your head / Take it and sit on it.” I don’t remember. It was weird.  

 

Gene Edwards: First song you wrote?

 

Molly Thomas: I’ve been, ever since you asked that question. I’ve been trying to remember. I don’t remember.

 

Gene Edwards: But did it just make sense to write a song? Or…

 

Molly Thomas: Yeaaah

 

Gene Edwards: Was it just the hardest thing you thought about doing?

 

Molly Thomas: For me, it’s very difficult to write a song. I don’t know. I probably have a different approach than y’all. It probably comes a lot more natural for you guys. But for me, it’s kind of difficult. It takes me a long time.

 

Gene Edwards: Tell me about the process.

 

Molly Thomas: I mean, for some songs, it could be that my first song took me ten years to write, so I don’t know what that first song was, so, what now?

 

Gene Edwards: So what, what is your process? What…

 

Molly Thomas: Normally, it is writing the words first, which is really weird because I grew up as a melody person. I’m very, when I hear a song on the radio or I don’t listen to the words at all. I just listen to the music and that’s what draws me in. So for me to approach it with the words first is really strange but

 

Gene Edwards: And where do the words come from?

 

Molly Thomas: Just feelings, you know, that I feel or experience or see other people experience. It’s real honest music.  

 

Gene Edwards: Do you journal? Do you write everything down? Do you write things that you hear on the street?

 

Molly Thomas: Sometimes. I do Yeah. I mean, it comes and goes in phases but yeah, I do that a lot.

 

Gene Edwards: Do you write everything down?

 

Garrison Starr: No, I used to but I don’t as much anymore. It’s, you know, sometimes journaling is just too much. It’s too emotional.

 

Molly Thomas: Yeah.

 

Garrison Starr: I don’t want to deal with it, you know? That’s probably why I don’t, you know, as when I was younger because that was my only outlet at that time. And now I have other outlets, because I’m older, and you know I’ve had more life experience and I can handle my emotions in a different way.

 

Neilson Hubbard: Healthier?

 

Garrison Starr: In a healthier way. So I don’t just every day I’m not like (indecipherable) my guitar, you know. I you know and I don’t know. Sometimes writing can be very, like too much to experience.

 

Gene Edwards: It’s really hard isn’t it?

 

Garrison Starr: Well it’s just so emotional for me, because it’s all so personal. I have a hard time writing songs about nothing, you know. You know, it’s funny. You say you don’t listen to lyrics. That’s all I listen to. Sometimes I love a melody in a song, but I can’t get into it because it’s like the stupidest words I’ve ever heard and I’m just like, “Ugh! I can’t sing that, but I love the melody.”

 

Molly Thomas: Yeah.

 

Garrison Starr: So sometimes that’s a, that’s a struggle for me, listening to music.

 

Gene Edwards: So for you, the lyrics are first.

 

Garrison Starr:  Yeah. I hear that. The very first thing, I zone in on what they’re talking about and, you know. That’s where I go first.

 

Gene Edwards: And for you?

 

Neilson Hubbard: I think when I’m writing just for myself, music and melody have always come first and I then I adapt the lyric to that. And sometimes it’s tough because I like the idea of coming up with the words first, but one way or the other, you have to adapt one of them. Either you’ve got to adapt the words to the melody or the melody to the words.

 

Garrison Starr: Well, yeah.

 

Neilson Hubbard: Which is difficult, but I mean, I don’t know. I mean for me now, where write a lot with artists who I’m working with so…

 

Gene Edwards: I was going to say, you, you guys collaborate, so how do you, how do you get these? How do you collaborate? It must be a knock down drag out…

 

Garrison Starr: I was telling him…

 

Neilson Hubbard: Nah

 

Garrison Starr: Not at all. It’s funny because I have to, well, usually have to have a place to start, like idealize with a song but it is, but then it becomes about the melody. I can’t write the words first. I do have to have a melody to sing to, and I’ve learned a lot about that from Neilson. Like, I feel like, in speaking about our collaboration, like you know, I feel like first of all, playing with Neilson is everything I love about music. Everything. Singing with him, playing with him, being in his life is everything that I love about music. And when we, I’ve learned, I feel like I’ve become a better songwriter from being around him and listening to him. I’ve learned so much about melodies and so much about the craft of song writing from you, you know, which has been a huge blessing for me, and I just feel like I’ve grown from that experience. So, I used to not think as much about melodies and really try to stretch myself in that way. Or I mean, yeah, I used to not think about it like that, but then when I met him and really listened to his songwriting and stuff, it was like, “Oh wow, you know.” It’s something to think about, you know, there’s more places to go. Because when I first started to writing songs, it was all heady stuff. Like I wasn’t being as honest, and I didn’t have my own way of communicating my thoughts.

 

Gene Edwards: For example…

 

Garrison Starr: Well, for example, I would, like when I first started writing songs, I would look up words in the dictionary. Like I would know what I wanted to say, but I would try to find a bigger word. Like, I’d look it up. I’d look up like in the thesaurus or the dictionary, and I’d find like “decumbent.” That means lying down. I’ll say decumbent. And Neilson, I remember him sitting me down one time. I played him a song one time and “I was like speechless, decumbent, you left me.” Neilson was like, “Garrison, I mean I have to tell you, like, have you ever thought about just saying what you’re trying to say? Because I don’t understand what you’re talking about.” And I’m like, “Oh.” So it was, like really, at that moment like him confronting me and being like what does that word mean. I mean, I don’t want to have to like go to the dictionary, Dude. What are you trying to say, and then I was, like from that point on I’ve really tried to be, I think, I’ve just become more comfortable with myself and in being able to be honest about what’s in my heart and not trying to fool people like…

 

Gene Edwards: But you know, all writers have to do that.

 

Neilson Hubbard: Absolutely.

 

Molly Thomas: Go through that, yeah.

 

Gene Edwards: Every writer who’s been on this program has talked about the editing process and how they’ve had to… They’ve had to kill their love babies, you know, their little words that they liked, especially liked. So it’s interesting that you, you have the same process. Where did Unavailable Man come from?

 

Molly Thomas: Oh, gosh. Do I have to tell that?

 

Gene Edwards: Yes you do.

 

Garrison Starr: Love that song.

 

Molly Thomas: I just, as you know, getting myself into relationships that I probably should not be in. I don’t know. I just kind, I guess I seem to attract the men that, you know, in their lives, they’re not in a place to be in a relationship, so…

 

Gene Edwards:  So, did it, did it help to write about them?

 

Molly Thomas: Yes.

 

Gene Edwards: Was that a cathartic experience?

 

Molly Thomas: Yeah, It was yeah and I normally don’t talk about what my songs are about just because I’ve always I’ve always had the approach where

 

Gene Edwards: Well, we’re going to make you…

 

Molly Thomas: Where I let it be up to the listener to have their own interpretation of what the song is because it means something different for everybody.

 

Gene Edwards:  Yeah. And does it mean something different do you every time you sing it, or does it always mean the same? Is there, is there… I’m wondering is there nuance in that?

 

Molly Thomas: It’s a new song. It’s a new song, so that was, actually, last night was the second time I’ve played it.

 

Gene Edwards: Really?

 

Molly Thomas: Yeah in front of people so… But other songs similar to it, I guess, yeah, it depends on where, how long I’ve been singing the song because it can apply to, it can change its meaning through the years, you know. A song can, it can mean something when you write it and then like ten years later, you’re like, “Oh, it means something completely different now.” Which is why I think it’s important for the listener, for the listener to have their own interpretation of it.  Because you never know what it’s going to say to somebody.

 

Gene Edwards: Let them decide. Will you sing it for us?

 

Molly Thomas: I will.

 

Gene Edwards: Will you?  

 

Molly Thomas sings Unavailable Man

 

Breathing / And a night with no tears / Wouldn’t it be nice / If you were here

Another, another misunderstanding / Miles away / Gone again

Please don’t dance / With another and make her cry

Please don’t kiss / Another and make her die

Unavailable man / Unavailable man

Find, find it in yourself / To be so kind / And put it on a shelf

So no one / No else will fall heavy / Into your love / Into your honey

Please don’t dance / With another and make her cry

Please don’t kiss / Another and make her die

Unavailable man / Unavailable man / Unavailable man / Unavailable man

 

 

 

Molly sings two songs…

 

 

Gene Edwards: Okay, kid, you got the job. You did good.

 

Molly Thomas: Thank you.

 

Gene Edwards: We liked you a lot.

 

Molly Thomas: Good. Thank you very much.

 

Gene Edwards: Tell me what, what was the beginning of the breakthrough moment?  Because you went from Hattiesburg, Mississippi to Nashville which took

 

Molly Thomas: I actually went to Mobile before Nashville.

 

Gene Edwards: Yeah, and what did you do in Mobile?

 

Molly Thomas: I was in a rock band for six years. And I was the fiddle player and one of the lead singers. We had, there were two of us.

 

Gene Edwards: Then what, then what took you to Nashville?

 

Molly Thomas: When we broke up and I started doing my own thing there in Nash…, in Mobile, and then I realized, you know, I have to go somewhere else to do this because I kind of ran out of resources there. So I went to Nashville. I was either going to go to New York, Los Angeles, or Nashville, and I thought

 

Gene Edwards: And what was it about Nashville

 

Molly Thomas: Well, it just made more sense because I knew people there and it’s in the south and it was more com, I felt more comfortable going there. I’m, I’m, I’ve always been kind of a late bloomer and so any… I take baby steps. I’d like to live in New York but…

 

Gene Edwards: But it will be a few steps away.

 

Molly Thomas: Yes.

 

Gene Edwards: So you went to Nashville and you began to do backup work, sidework? What places where you were known, things like that?

 

Molly Thomas: Well, yeah, mostly sidework at first and I did occasional shows of my own there and still did some touring down south, down in Mobile and that area. So I wouldn’t lose, wouldn’t lose my fans, I guess.

 

Gene Edwards: So what was the moment?

 

Molly Thomas: Oh, the moment? Well, I’m not really sure what the question…

 

Gene Edwards: Was it overseas? Did you go overseas?  

 

Molly Thomas: I did. I did but what’s…

 

Gene Edwards: And you were really well received there.

 

Molly Thomas: Oh, yes, surprisingly so, yeah. They have a completely different audience there than we do.

 

Gene Edwards: How’s that?

 

Molly Thomas: They actually listen. They, it’s, it’s really intimidating. Have you played over there?

 

Garrison Starr: I haven’t.

 

Molly Thomas: It’s, it’s great, but the first show that I did was a house concert there, and there were, it was a little bitty attic in somebody’s house and there were thirty people stuffed in this little room and I thought, “Oh, you know, good. There will be some act, some movement going on.” But not the case. Everybody was really still and staring straight at me and really listening intently.

 

Gene Edwards: To every single word  

 

Molly Thomas: Oh, my gosh!

 

Garrison Starr: I’d give anything for those shows, man

 

Molly Thomas: Yeah, It was amazing. Real, well at first, it was just kind of weird, and then the next night, it was at a club and it was just like that, too and I thought, “Wow, they’re, they’re listening.” They have the attention span to actually listen to an entire song and not get up and go smoke or whatever it is that you do and so it was, it was very refreshing.

 

Gene Edwards: Yeah, and it changed you.

 

Molly Thomas: Yeah, definitely, yeah, yeah. And the sense of independence, too. Traveling over there by myself. My brother lived there at the time and so I kind of had his place as a hub, to go back and forth between shows on the train and stuff. But yeah, so it gave me a sense of independence and a sense, well, you know, maybe I am good at this so it was a, it was definitely a defining moment.

 

Gene Edwards: So you’re both in Oxford, Mississippi, at the same time?

 

Garrison Starr: Yep

 

Neilson Hubbard: Yes

 

Gene Edwards: Knew each other?

 

Neilson Hubbard: We did. We had met at a…

 

Gene Edwards: What was it about Oxford? Was that…

 

Garrison Starr: What do you mean?

 

Gene Edwards: Well, you had to go to…

 

Garrison Starr: Why did we go there?

 

Neilson Hubbard: Yeah

 

Gene Edwards: Oxford, yeah, you went to Oxford to go to school.  

 

Garrison Starr: Man, I don’t know why I went

 

Neilson Hubbard: Yeah

 

Garrison Starr: I didn’t want to go to Ole Miss, honestly, but I ended up going anyway.

 

Neilson Hubbard: I kind of felt the same.

 

Garrison Starr: It was just easy I guess. Everybody, it was what was expected, probably.

 

Gene Edwards: It was close to Hernando.

 

Garrison Starr: Everybody was doing it, you know, just like and it was just like, yeah, all right. I’ll just go there.

 

Gene Edwards: Were you good at it?

 

Garrison Starr: Good at school?

 

Gene Edwards: Yeah.

 

Garrison Starr: Oh, I hated school. I didn’t even want to go to college, but it was what you did. I didn’t but for a year and a half. I hated school, man. I hated high school. I hated it. I wasn’t interested in it. Not that, I didn’t learn that way. You know, what I mean? I wish I’d gone to a different kind of school where I could have learned

 

Gene Edwards: Like and arts or a what?

 

Garrison Starr: Like in a way that worked for me. Yeah. Like it just, the whole classroom and the discipline and all that, I didn’t like that. You know, I didn’t like, like having to do that stuff a certain way. I didn’t like to study. And I didn’t study. I could do pretty well without studying. I just, it just wasn’t my thing.

 

Gene Edwards: And you?

 

Neilson Hubbard: I was actually, I was pretty good at school, but it was easy. I went to Prep and we learned how to and it just became like

 

Gene Edwards: You learned how to study.

 

Neilson Hubbard: You learn how to learn and you learn how to like beat the test which, I don’t know if that’s good or not, but I agree with some of that stuff. But I learned you know a lot more just, you know, learning on my own, like reading and when I was starting work on um building my studio and I was learning a new program, Pro Tools and all that. That was all a new world to me but it was still, like, I knew how to learn on my own from… I think I learned just as much at Prep as I did at Ole Miss.

 

Gene Edwards: So was, was there this moment when you said I’ve got to go to Nashville?  

 

Garrison Starr: No  

 

Neilson Hubbard: Probably not for you.

 

Garrison Starr: There actually wasn’t. Not for me. I went to LA to get away from the south for a few minutes. I had to get out for seven and a half years. You know, I was thinking, it’s just like…

 

Gene Edwards: Why?

 

Garrison Starr: Well, yeah, I have a love hate relationship with like, with Mississippi and with the south. There’s so many great, like I’m so glad I’m from here

 

Molly Thomas: Yeah.

 

Garrison Starr: Because it’s, because it’s really, like you learn, like I think I’ve learned a lot. I mean it’s so culturally rich, you know, but I think one reason it’s that way is because of the tension that exists, you know, because of the…

 

Gene Edwards: Why?

 

Garrison Starr: A lot of the small town thinking and the small town mentality and the traditions.

 

Gene Edwards: I’ve heard you talk about Hernando like that.

 

Garrison Starr: Yeah and those things are great. I think those things are great, but it’s hard to break out of that which is why a lot of people don’t do it. And I think for me, in order to be able to appreciate where I was from, because I was becoming so frustrated with the religious aspect and how that’s forced upon you, especially in the Bible Belt, Mississippi. It’s what you do and it’s like where I went to high school. I went to private Christian school, so it’s like about the learning thing. Like it was so much more about God and Hell and Heaven than it was about learning how to live, live in the world. You know, because you live in this world. This is the world you live in, and it’s about that big around, and you either fit in it, or you squish into it. If you don’t fit in it, you make yourself fit. And so I had to go to a place where I could stretch out and learn about myself and be free to be me for a little while. So that I could come back, you know, and it was, I never planned on leaving LA, honestly, but then I came to Nashville. And I think if I hadn’t gone away, there’s no way I could have come back to the south and been able…

 

Gene Edwards: What was it about Nashville?

 

Garrison Starr: Neilson?

 

Gene Edwards: Was it…

 

Garrison Starr: For one. I mean that was a big part, you know. I mean, you know. We had made The Sound of You and Me, which is my last record. We had made that record and he was like, “Dude, come back” and I was like, “Okay, it’s time.” It started feeling so far away, you know. LA is far.

 

Gene Edwards: Do you feel that way about the south? Do you feel that way about Mississippi?

 

Neilson Hubbard: I mean um, you know, she brought up a great point you about the, the  tension, you know. I mean, that’s… When I was in Mississippi, I felt more of that, I think, that just because I think great art always exists in a world of tension. It has to and that’s the tension that I know

 

Molly Thomas: Yeah.

 

Neilson Hubbard: I mean what, like, because we’re from the south. I mean New York has its own, has a different thing so moving to Nashville feels not like the south. I have a girlfriend and she’s from St. Louis and she’s like this is so southern and I’m like no this is not southern.

 

Gene Edwards: Nashville’s not the south?

 

Neilson Hubbard: I mean for Mississippi,

 

Garrison Starr: It’s true.

 

Neilson Hubbard: Like this is not the south like not even close. But I mean, like, the idea of baby steps, like I like that, too, because to me Nashville, it, it feels metropolitan but yet it still has that, it still has a little bit of that south feel to it.

 

Gene Edwards: Do, do you believe as some people do that all of music really started with Mississippi?

 

Garrison Starr: No

 

Gene Edwards: Not just the blues but Jimmie Rodgers and Elvis and every, everything.

 

Neilson Hubbard: I feel a lot of it did. Yes, I do.

 

Molly Thomas: Yeah

 

Gene Edwards: And how do, how does that impact what you do? In other words, are you a Mississippi song writer? Are you a southern, does the south infect all the songs that you write?

 

Neilson Hubbard: Well, I think the south just from being, just from living in the south, infects it more than anything. Just that fact that that’s where we’re from. Not so much because, I mean, I’m hugely into the Motown stuff and the Detroit stuff and which that’s not from the south. I mean, obviously, it all comes from somewhere, but I feel like just the fact that we’re from Mississippi, I mean, there’s a drummer friend of ours that would talk… Craig

 

Garrison Starr: Um hum.

 

Neilson Hubbard: He’s always describing our music as the um as the Mississippi heroin groove because it was, we could play slow and with feeling and so I think that it has something to do with where we’re from, the slowness and the, just the, something in the water or something. I don’t know

 

Garrison Starr: Well the pace of life down here is different. And that I enjoy. I missed that. There’s things that I loved about living in a bigger city because I loved like where everybody’s not all up in your business every two seconds. But when I moved to Nashville, I realized how much I enjoyed the pace of life, and it feels comfortable to come home to. And I like being able to get in my car and park in the parking lot and just walk straight to the front door instead of having to take a ticket and park on the fifth level of the parking garage to go to Whole Foods or wherever it is, your, the grocery store, you know.

 

Gene Edwards: But don’t you run into a lot of people who say to you, but wait, Mississippi? Why? Wow!

 

Garrison Starr: Well, when people say that, I’m like, then I just try to be obnoxious about it. I’m like, “Yeah, that’s where I’m from. Mmmm. Have you ever been there?” People, you know, people, it’s just like, so

 

Molly Thomas: I think there’s a lot of depth here.

 

Garrison Starr: Yeah

 

Neilson Hubbard: Oh absolutely.

 

Garrison Starr: Yeah, I mean…

 

Molly Thomas: There really is.

 

Garrison Starr: It’s like I said. It’s a tough one for me. It’s a love hate relationship because sometimes I absolutely hate this state and I hate the south. And then sometimes I’m like, “But you don’t. It’s where you’re from. It’s where your roots are and you’ve learned so much because, you know. And it, and there’s so many great people and it’s just like the thing last night, you know, the show last night. I was telling Neilson, the, I mean, that’s one of my, that’s one of the best shows I’ve played in forever because the crowd was so amazing.

 

Gene Edwards: They were listening.

 

Molly Thomas: Uh huh.

 

Neilson Hubbard: Yeah.

 

Garrison Starr: They were so surprising and, you know, that’s one thing about, I’ve noticed about just being from Mississippi, being from the south. People are so supportive.

 

Molly Thomas: Yeah.

 

Garrison Starr: You know a lot of people are so supportive, you know, and they will support you in your craft. They come to your shows and they’re so excited. And I think that, I have learned that, that kind of graciousness um from being from here. You know, to learn how to support each other and how to extend courtesy and grace and love to someone you know, and you know what I mean. It’s a nice thing. It’s a nice thing. Manners are nice.

 

Gene Edwards: Manners.

 

Garrison Starr: Manners. I had to read Tiffany’s Table Manners for Teens. I know all about it.

 

Gene Edwards: We have the manners to ask you to do something for us. Would you do something for us?

 

Neilson Hubbard: I would. I would love to.

 

Gene Edwards: What would you like to do?

 

Neilson Hubbard: I’m going to do a song called Spirit Fingers, and I think…

 

Gene Edwards: And where did it come from?

 

Neilson Hubbard It actually comes from a, which the album title, as well, it’s actually from my ex-wife. It’s a song, so we’ll go ahead and do that. But Spirit Fingers was about, it’s actually a song about living. How you can be far away from someone even though you’re extremely close to, you know. Even though you’re in like you’re in touching distance from them, you’re still, you’re… It’s the distance that we live between each other sometimes. It’s not always physical but emotional as well. So that’s what that song’s about.

 

Gene Edwards: We’re going to listen very closely.

 

Neilson Hubbard: Okay. All right. 

 

 

Neilson sings two songs…

 

 

Gene Edwards: Thank you. That was great.

 

Neilson Hubbard: Thank you.

 

Gene Edwards: Did you guys like that?

 

Molly Thomas: Very much so.

 

Garrison Starr: Loved it.

 

Molly Thomas: Can’t get it out of my head.

 

Gene Edwards: Tell me how in this day and age, how are you heard? How is it that people are able to hear you because things have changed so much? How are you heard?

 

Garrison Starr: I have no idea. I wish that you would answer that question.

 

Neilson Hubbard: That’s a great.

 

Garrison Starr: You could probably tell us better than we could tell you.

 

Gene Edwards: Yeah  

 

Garrison Starr: Where do you find music? Where do your hear about people?

 

Gene Edwards: Well, I find, I’ve become a satellite music fan, so I find music on, I find your kind of music, which I guess is defined as what? Folk? Independent? Contemporary? Country? I don’t know what. I find you on The Loft.

 

Neilson Hubbard: Yeah. Nobody knows what they want to call it.

 

Gene Edwards: Nobody knows what the category is.

 

Garrison Starr: I call it rock.

 

Gene Edwards: So I find it on those kind of out there channels on satellite radio.

 

Garrison Starr: Yeah.

 

Gene Edwards: Or on the internet. Is that how people find you now?

 

Garrison Starr: I do.

 

Molly Thomas: Yeah, there’s a lot of that

 

Garrison Starr: Somebody, I have heard a couple of people say they’ve heard my stuff a lot on Pandora Radio, which I don’t know what that is, but I’m happy. Thank you. It’s great. I mean, I guess, it’s internet radio, you know.

 

Gene Edwards: So where do you go to get people to listen to your stuff? I mean, where… I remember in the days when I was starting out in radio, promotion guys came to the radio station and we had an Epic and a Columbia promotion guy who came to the radio station and said, “You gotta listen to this.”

 

Garrison Starr: That’s a lost art.

 

Neilson Hubbard: Well, I think, I think you’re asking a question that’s basically, it’s a fundamental like, we’re at a crossroads of where this stuff’s going to go. I think because you have, I mean, every, all the way up from the label because you have the label’s promotion guy coming to talk to you as a radio. It’s just records aren’t being sold the same way they were from radio play. I mean, now, I mean…

 

Gene Edwards: Does any radio station play you?

 

Neilson Hubbard: Well I mean we have like Lightening 100 and stuff that’s up in Nashville. That’s like a  triple A station. Those type stations will play what we do, but I think it should. It’s, it’s moving into like where we can all get our music heard is through TV and film, commercial placement. That’s becoming the like the new radio. That’s where kids gravitate. They see something like the new Volkswagen commercial and it’s got this, you know, Feist song on it or like, like the new iPod. They played that forever. It was and Feist had a real…

 

Gene Edwards: And they made it a hit.

 

Neilson Hubbard: Yeah, I mean, she had a really big you know following, a kind of groundswell following. But then once that that iPod commercial hit, then she’s all of a sudden everybody knows the one two three song, the iPod song, so it’s like, you know, I think that’s becoming the new radio now.

 

Gene Edwards: Your superhero song was a little bit that way, wasn’t it?

 

Garrison Starr: Well it was, I mean radio broke that song but you know, but what was, what’s interesting, I kind of wanted to point out because what Neilson’s saying is true but it’s also like, you know, when you were in radio, you were of like kind of a, a what’s the word I’m trying to think of ? You were, there were people like you, like you were in a time, basically, where people got excited about the music.

 

Gene Edwards: Oh yeah.

 

Garrison Starr: They were hearing and they wanted to play it and they had control over what they would play

 

Neilson Hubbard: Right.

 

Garrison Starr: I mean you can sit down all day long and talk you know talk to a radio person but you know what they’re going to do? They’re going to say, “Well, here’s the number of our consultants in Colorado.”

 

Neilson Hubbard: Right, yeah.

 

Garrison Starr: Give them a call and see if you can, and it’s like you know there may be a deejay somewhere, you know, who loves a record but the deejays are machines. They’re just vehicles to do what the people are telling them to do now

 

Gene Edwards: They’re the vehicles of Clear Channel and, and Infinity and, and these huge

 

Neilson Hubbard: Absolutely.

 

Garrison Starr: They don’t have control over that.  

 

Molly Thomas: Well like, I guess the record companies have so much money that they…

 

Garrison Starr: But that’s the thing. It’s like even Lightening 100. Like I’m not being played on Lightening 100 right now and that’s fine. But it’s just like, you know, if they had, if they were making those decisions, maybe I would be. But the consultants are making the decisions now. Even stations like Lightening 100 that are great, and they still

 

Gene Edwards: Even the triple A format stations?

 

Garrison Starr: Yeah. They still support, they do support local music and they’re great about that and they do what they can but they don’t have the final say like they did five years ago, ten years ago and even, good Lord, like thirty years ago. People just were passionate and they did what they wanted to do and what they felt.

 

Gene Edwards: Yeah. You played the album tracks that you, and, and there were albums

 

Garrison Starr: Yeah  It’s just like…

 

 

Molly Thomas: And there were albums, right?

 

Garrison Starr: Yeah, totally.

 

Neilson Hubbard: Right, right.

 

Garrison Starr: Now it’s back to singles again, almost. You know that’s what people are, like Neilson was saying, with the TV and film placements, it’s about a song. It’s about like, you know, Ingrid Michaelson getting her song placed in that Old Navy commercial. Well, that’s, thanks to that Old Navy commercial, she’s everywhere. And that’s the interesting thing about this business. It’s like your life can change like that. Overnight and that’s what people will, you know, you stay in it because you love it but it’s that, it’s that, you know, it keeps you on this wheel because you know oh it could change any day. Could change any day, you know. I mean I think that’s part of what keeps, keeps us all working because we know it’s going to pay off somewhere

 

Gene Edwards: Yeah.

 

Garrison Starr: You just, you throw, you cast a wide net and you just wait and see.

 

Gene Edwards: So how important is it to have, for you to have a website? I mean, you’ve got a…

 

Molly Thomas: I have a…

 

Gene Edwards: You’ve got a…

 

Neilson Hubbard: Yeah.

 

Gene Edwards: All of you have websites, don’t you?

 

Molly Thomas: You know, I’m finding more activity on my MySpace page. It’s easier to update and stuff, too, but…

 

Gene Edwards: And you keep a journal, a blog, there.

 

Molly Thomas: Sometimes

 

Gene Edwards: And you have your…

 

Molly Thomas: I’m not much of a blogger, but I, well, I try to every now and then just because I’ve got to, you know, stay up with the kids. But my frustration, I think I mentioned this earlier to you, during the break, was on the MySpace page. There’s this Snowcap thing where you can sell your songs for ninety nine cents apiece or you can actually decide how much you want to sell the songs for. But I strategically put my songs in an order on the CD, on the record, just like you did in, you know,

 

Gene Edwards: In the old days

 

Molly Thomas: old days, back when albums were in an order and they were kind of cinematic.

 

Gene Edwards: But do you still do the same thing with CDs, don’t you?

 

Neilson Hubbard: Yeah, yeah

 

Molly Thomas: Oh, yeah absolutely.

 

Gene Edwards: You construct it a certain way and…

 

Molly Thomas: And that’s what I was going to say. Right and that’s what I did on my record. I’m sure y’all probably did the same thing.

 

Neilson Hubbard: Yeah

 

Molly Thomas: And then on the Snowcap thing, when you’re, when you’re down, when you’re downloading your songs to, you know, to be or when you’re putting them. I don’t know all the internet lingo, but when you’re putting the songs out there in space for people to download, they mixed them all up, and I just got so frustrated because they weren’t in the order. I wanted them to be in the order that the record is in and

 

Neilson Hubbard: Yeah  

 

Molly Thomas: And apparently it doesn’t make it matter.

 

Garrison Starr: Is there no way to do that?

 

Molly Thomas: No, it just decides what it wants to, I don’t know…

 

Garrison Starr: Well, what is tricky about that, too. What irritates me, I get irritated about the Snowcap thing because that thing automatically, you have to go set it. You have to turn it off or else that store pops up automatically on your MySpace page

 

Molly Thomas: Yeah

 

Garrison Starr: And you don’t…

 

Molly Thomas: Oh yeah, right.

 

Garrison Starr: And that’s true, that’s a little sneaky… You know, you should be able to choose whether you want to sell your stuff through Snowcap or not?

 

Molly Thomas: Right.

 

Gene Edwards: So how do you?

 

Gene Edwards: This is entering into a whole other world but, you know, writers generate their income from selling their books and you know the, so how do you generate your income if somebody’s buying a song for ninety nine cents? Do you… How do you get…

 

Molly Thomas: I guess it adds up somewhere. I don’t know.

 

Gene Edwards: Do you just get a royalty check every so many months or

 

Molly Thomas: Yeah, thanks to CD Baby. I sell most of my stuff through CD Baby and they’re, they’re a great company.

 

Gene Edwards: And what is CD Baby?

 

Molly Thomas: It’s a digital distribution, kind of neat.

 

Garrison Starr: It’s like iTunes. But it’s different.

 

Gene Edwards: So I can go to CD Baby and…   

 

Molly Thomas: Yeah, you can and well actually, they have you get, you send them hard copies of your record as well or your CD and people can buy the record there and they mail it to the person who, who has ordered it. But they also have, they have like because it’s a distri…, distribution company, they have, you know, like hundreds of digital companies. So if you Google your name and some, you know, some company comes up that’s selling your record and you’re going who is this? Who’s making? And then you realize that maybe I’ve got a penny from that company or whatever, you know

 

Garrison Starr: Well, they all take different percentages, too.

 

Neilson Hubbard: Right, you know, like iTunes takes a large percentage. CD Baby takes lesser percentage for distribution and you don’t have, you really don’t have control over that.

 

Molly Thomas: Right.

 

Gene Edwards: So, where’s it going?

 

Garrison Starr: The percentage?

 

Gene Edwards: Yeah, no, yeah, where, where’s it all going?  

 

Garrison Starr: The money?

 

Gene Edwards: Where’s it all going? I mean, not the money?

 

Neilson Hubbard: Where’s the industry?

 

Gene Edwards: Where’s it all going? Yeah.

 

Garrison Starr: Oh, the industry.

 

Neilson Hubbard: Well, I think that’s the, that’s the question because I think everybody’s trying to redefine the revenue streams. They’re not the same that they used to be when you were doing radio promotions and it, like this guy got paid this, and I mean, that’s where everybody’s like scrambling around. I mean, even the labels because now there’s so much power with the artist. Because of the fact that you can put your record up and digitally distribute this thing. You don’t need a distributor to go out and put it in, you know, however many record stores across the country. So…

 

Gene Edwards: And you don’t need a record company anymore…

 

Neilson Hubbard: You, you don’t.

 

Garrison Starr: No you don’t.

 

Neilson Hubbard: Not as much.

 

Molly Thomas: Well, are there record stores open?

 

Neilson Hubbard: Stores? I don’t know.

 

Molly Thomas: Are they even open anymore?

 

Garrison Starr: Well yeah.

 

Molly Thomas: I mean there’s a few…

 

Neilson Hubbard: No, yeah, yeah, exactly.

 

Garrison Starr: That’s, I mean, it’s a great time for music and it, I think it’s a great time

 

Neilson Hubbard: Absolutely.

 

Garrison Starr: Because it’s like any man’s game.

 

Neilson Hubbard: Absolutely.

 

Garrison Starr: You can, anything you can dream up, you can do and that’s fantastic. But it’s hard because the boundaries are, are… There are

 

Molly Thomas: There are no…

 

Garrison Starr: The parameters are blurry, I mean, they’re moving around and til, they’re not real stationary. I think.

 

Gene Edwards: Does it make you more creative or less creative or just more frustrated?

 

Garrison Starr: Well, it, it made me really frustrated for the last six months and then I hit, after the holidays and it came a new year, I hit a level of acceptance about where things are. And acceptance is always the answer in my opinion. Once I hit that level of acceptance, I got really excited again, because, the cool thing is, as you know, I’ve released my record in partnership with Media Creatures, my music publishing company Also Sheryl Churchill, who works with Neilson, as well, that’s how I met her. She has put this record out. So we are partners in this putting out this record. So we’re partners in our label and in this venture together and, you know, it, the way I’m used to doing things is like, “Okay, we’ll you set up the record for three months.” And then the record comes out and then you hold your breath and you see if the label’s going to spend any more money promoting it or if they’re going to spend any money promoting it at all. What I realized over the holidays is, “Oh, wait. We’re doing this ourselves so we can push this record. We can try, do anything. We can work this record for two years if we want to. Because there are no rules for us, you know. We just, so we’re like grass roots, you know, the virtual market is important on the internet, you know, all the virtual stuff. It’s, an interesting time.

 

Gene Edwards: All those things that people never, ever imagined.

 

Garrison Starr: Well that’s where people are going now, people are on the internet.

 

Gene Edwards: In twenty years from now, what’s it going to be like?

 

Neilson Hubbard: Oh, nobody can even

 

Garrison Starr: Probably a cyborg will come up to you and be like, “Here is your record that I just created in the back of the house, Master.”

 

Molly Thomas: You know, really.

 

Garrison Starr: Thank you

 

Neilson Hubbard: Who knows what it will be.

 

Molly Thomas: And another thing is oh…

 

Gene Edwards: And will that be, you think that will be creative?

 

Garrison Starr: A creative time…

 

Neilson Hubbard: Well, you actually just like create a robot that makes the music for you.

 

Garrison Starr: Right, yeah.

 

Molly Thomas: Well, I mean, speaking of robots, most of the music that we hear now is robotic because everything goes through, you know, a tuner and you have… There’s no, no, variation in voices that you hear. They all sound the same because of all the compression that they do. And the digitally, the tuners, automatic tuners that they put through on…

 

Neilson Hubbard: But it’s just like, I think it’s just like

 

Molly Thomas: You know more about than I do.

 

Neilson Hubbard: Well no, just anything else like you’re, it’s a new technology and there’s going to be misuse of it and there’s going to be, I mean like the Kanye West record. Not the one that just came out but the one before it, the Gold Digger record where John Bryan, I mean, it’s an amazing use of like how they chopped up stuff. And they’re using beats, you know, and they’re using samples and yet there’s like this amazing like organic feel to the record. It’s a great hip-hop record. It’s one of my favorite records of the last five years but like, and Bjork does a lot of that stuff, too, where she’s able to. So there’s amazing, like there’s amazing, you can do with the digital stuff that you couldn’t do, like the fact that you know, some kid in Idaho can like make a record for$2000 if he buys a little computer or something.

 

Garrison Starr: Right

 

Neilson Hubbard: And it can be amazing. He doesn’t have to wait on

 

Garrison Starr: A label

 

Neilson Hubbard: Like this big label to say no you’re good enough for me to give you money.

 

Gene Edwards: To come on in to Muscle Shoals and We’ll, we’ll go into the studio

 

Neilson Hubbard: Yeah absolutely. So there’s, so there’s, so I think it is a time of great creativity because you have like a revolution of the artists.

 

Molly Thomas: Right.

 

Neilson Hubbard: It’s like, so, it’s, there’s a, you know, it’s you know, it’s good and bad that comes with that. You’re going to have a lot of like watered down stuff that’s not very good because everyone’s able to do it but yet, at the same time, you have people who can who wouldn’t have been able to make music, I mean, like, like Bright Eyes. That’s something out of their bedroom, and it sounds, it’s something that’s caught on.

 

Garrison Starr: And it just goes to show you, it goes to show you that like you know, that, that stuff that is real you, the a line in one of your songs about the, what is it? About saying something real in your song

 

Molly Thomas: Yeah.

 

Garrison Starr: It’s like that’s like, I mean, at the end of the day, that’s what people respond to. They respond to real things. I mean, they also respond to crap, but they respond to, when you’re telling the truth, man

 

Molly Thomas: Right.

 

Garrison Starr: And somebody’s speaking from their heart, just let, I mean that Bright Eyes thing is a great example. People are riveted by that guy, and it’s because he’s like out, he owns it and he’s doing his thing and that is sexy. That is like something people want for themselves.  It’s inspiring.

 

Gene Edwards: So at the, at the end of the day, the words make the difference?

 

Garrison Starr: At the end of the day, somebody’s deal makes the difference.

 

Neilson Hubbard: Yeah.

 

Garrison Starr: Who they are, when they’re owning it and they’re out there speaking it that makes the difference. That makes the difference. Stevie Wonder makes the difference.

 

Molly Thomas: Absolutely.

 

Neilson Hubbard: Yeah.

 

Garrison Starr: You hear that guy singing and you’re like, like, Dude, you know.

 

Gene Edwards: Wow! And it’s just as fresh today as it was.

 

Molly Thomas: Timeless.

 

Garrison Starr: Yeah and that’s, what tells you something.

 

Molly Thomas: Exactly.

 

Garrison Starr: You hear Bonnie Raitt and you’re like, “Shut up. I’m listening to Bonnie Raitt siiiinng.”  You know, it’s like shut it. I mean, that’s the deal.

 

Gene Edwards: We would like to shut it and give you a chance to step over there.

 

Garrison Starr: You’d like for me to shut it.

 

Gene Edwards: Will you do something, will you do something?

 

Garrison Starr: Yes, I will.

 

Gene Edwards: What will you do?

 

Garrison Starr: Well… Should I do Unchangeable or Brightest Star? What do you think?

 

Neilson Hubbard: It’s warmed up. I don’t…

 

Gene Edwards: You can do whatever you want.

 

Garrison Starr: Unchangeable. I think I’ll do Unchangeable.

 

Gene Edwards: Great.

 

Garrison Starr: We’ll see how that goes.

 

 

Garrison sings two songs…

 

 

Gene Edwards: Super hero was kind of uh played on the radio quite a bit, isn’t it? Wasn’t it, what, at the World Cup, at the Ladies’ World Cup.

 

Garrison Starr: They did. They played it.  

 

Gene Edwards: That had to be cool.

 

Garrison Starr: Oh, it was awesome.

 

Gene Edwards: Did they tell you?  

 

S We were at, I was at the game. I was at the World Cup game, and a friend of mine was in town staying at my apartment. And I didn’t even know until, she was freaking out. Like I got home and she was like, “They played your song right there in the beginning of the World Cup!” And I was like, “Oh my gosh!” And then I got excited because I thought, “Oh, I’m going to get paid!” And then I learned about the rules of how they have to pay you and how they don’t.

 

Gene Edwards: They didn’t, they didn’t have to pay you.

 

Garrison Starr: They didn’t because they only used like if you use it’s some… I don’t, I don’t know exactly what it is, but if you use like a certain amount if it’s a one time usage and it’s only a certain number of seconds. It can’t go past like eighteen seconds or something. They don’t have to pay you as long as they don’t do it again, you know, so it’s so they don’t have to ask permission

 

Gene Edwards: Well, that’s why we only used eighteen seconds of it here.

 

Garrison Starr: Exactly so if you just use that. But yeah it was really cool.

 

Gene Edwards: But, you know, we used to hear a lot of them, again going back to the radio days, we’d hear a lot of people talk about the first time they heard their song played on the radio. Do you, have you ever had that experience? Do you think you ever will? 

 

Garrison Starr: I can’t remember where in, the first time I heard it.

 

Neilson Hubbard: I remember. I was in LA. I was in the band This Living Hand, and we were driving. We had just played with the Counting Crows, and we were driving down the street and somebody, we were following someone and they like jumped out of the car and they’re like, “Turn on this station!” And it was like, it was one of the songs so that was pretty cool.  

 

Gene Edwards: It’s like it’s us.

 

Neilson Hubbard: Yeah.

 

Gene Edwards: What, you talked earlier, about being in Europe and singing with those people who were listening very closely, and I, I had the feeling that was when you really began to find your voice. And really began to understand what your voice was.

 

Molly Thomas: Yeah, I, I think, well, you know, I’ve been, I’ve been doing this for a while so I, I think I found my voice before that. But I really think I really, really did find my voice then, yeah, so the answer to your question is yes.

 

Gene Edwards: I’m going to ask all of you about this. Is there a moment of epiphany when you finally say, “Yeah. That’s what I’m about.”

 

Molly Thomas: I think that’s for me it was being comfortable because I had so many and you’re probably just used to it because you play so much but because I done a lot of sidework as a side musician so I think because I had so many shows. It was a tour, so there were so many shows every night. It was a matter of being comfortable and being and being more familiar with my own songs and my voice and really getting into the voice and the character of the of the songs. And so I, it just gave me that opportunity to do that so.

 

Gene Edwards: Did you have a moment like that or do you have a time that…

 

Neilson Hubbard: I have a time that applies to what I’m doing now the most. I’m just, from a production standpoint where I can look back. And I mean that might not be what you want to hear

 

Gene Edwards: Could be.

 

Neilson Hubbard: I mean it, it, a moment of understanding like, “Okay. I get this now and this is what I want to do.” When, when I was, it was actually when I was making the Why Men Fail record Craig Krampf, who’s played on some of Garrison’s records, too  he’s an amazing drummer, session drummer, played on like Hot Child in the City and Rikki Don’t Lose That…, he’s played on tons of stuff. He, we, we were having problems with a certain song, and we couldn’t get it to feel right. And I was playing something else and, well it doesn’t matter. Let me just figure out what you guys are playing. I’m just playing the rhythm guitar, singing, singer songwriter and, and he, he was like, “No, no, no. It matters completely what you’re playing. It matters absolutely what you’re playing because that dictates the feel of everything.” And I guess it’s, it’s just saying all that he was, here’s this drummer and he was listening. And it was the first per, the first, it, it was the first moment I like learned like about how listening for music in general was so important. Like listening when you’re playing with other people, I mean whether it’s, you know, you’re leading a band as the, and the songwriter, always being able to, you know… That was, that was, the epiphany moment for me as a musician, and that, when, that I apply that every day when I’m, as a producer and even as a writer and a musician when I play as a sideman. It’s always about listening to who you’re playing with.

 

Molly Thomas: Absolutely, yeah.

 

Neilson Hubbard: And it came from a drummer which is, which is unbelievable.

 

Gene Edwards: Well, that’s all right. Did you have that moment?

 

Garrison Starr: I can tell you the moment when I started to find my voice and started to kind of really get what oh, this is what it’s about like I had the opportunity about, I guess, it had to have been five years ago, five or six years ago. Like, I got a call from my manager at the time and it was like, hey Mary Chapin Carpenter’s a friend of mine and she had sent me an email that she had hurt her back and I didn’t think anything of it.” Well, my manager was the production manager on the Vietnam Veterans like Landmine Free World Tour like that Emmylou Harris, Bruce Coburn, Patti Griffin and Mary Chapin Carpenter were doing. Well, he called me and said, “Chapin’s hurt her back. Do you want to fill in for three shows?” So I was like yeah, I mean…

 

Gene Edwards: Wow!

 

Garrison Starr: I’m scared but I’ll do it. So I flew and I did like three shows in the south with, and it was in the round every night and the order every night was this: Emmylou Harris, Bruce Coburn, Patty Griffin, me. That was the order. I had to follow them every night and like, and at that point it was just like, it was just being around them and seeing the way they interacted with the audience I was, I mean, that’s when I realized, “Oh this is so not about me, like if I want to be able to, like if I want to really be able to have fun and just… I mean I’m just a vehicle. It’s not about me.” You know, I can stress out, you know what I mean? Because I used to just think so hard about the shows and I used to get paranoid about whether I’d make… It was just all about me. And that’s when I realized it’s not about me because they were so, having fun and it was all about a connection with the audience. They were just connecting with the audience every night. They were so relaxed and granted they’re more seasoned. All of them are more seasoned than I as, as writers and musicians and everything, you know and singers. But that was the most valuable lesson I’ve ever learned, just being able to have that opportunity and go, “Man, if Emmylou Harris doesn’t take herself seriously, who do I think I am.” You know what I mean? So it was, that’s when I learned that it was really like about a connection and it was about a you know the aud…, it was just as much about the audience par, participation in the show as it was about me and just having a conversation.

 

Gene Edwards: Letting it be part of…

 

Molly Thomas: Right.

 

Garrison Starr: And once, once I, it took so much pressure off just to be able to show up at a show and have a conversation because I can do that. You know, I can do that, so you know. When I when I started doing that at shows, I, I started having so much more fun and it was I wasn’t stressful and I started singing better and, and, and I don’t know. I just felt better about it. Started finding myself in that.

 

Gene Edwards: It is uh likely that there is a young, southern, or not southern songwriter watching this program this evening as we are talking. What would you want to say to them?

 

Neilson Hubbard: Whew! That is always like…

 

Garrison Starr: Isn’t that great?

 

Gene Edwards: Don’t do it. What would you want to say

 

Neilson Hubbard: Law school or something. I don’t know I mean I, I, I like the little thing I was just talking about earlier, learning how to listen and hear things. I mean, because we are in a time period now like what you were talking about where with, with the technology, I mean, it’s much visual as it is listening anymore because you can see the waveforms, you know when you’re when you’re doing Pro Tools and all that stuff. So I, I just, just, just getting to a place where you can listen and you, you know, you’re doing something that, listening, listening to you insides, listening to your heart and saying something that you mean because that’s, that’s really the only point in doing any of this

 

Molly Thomas: Probably that would be my advice, yeah.

 

Gene Edwards: That’s what you would say, that?

 

Molly Thomas: I think you mentioned that earlier, too, that if people would be just a little bit more honest about their, their music and what they have to say and not be so contrived. There’s a lot of things that are contrived, it seems like but, yeah, just listening to your heart and, and just being honest.

 

Gene Edwards: Don’t use the thesaurus.

 

Neilson Hubbard: Yeah, trying to stay, stay away from…

 

Molly Thomas: Although I don’t know. Sometimes it does come in handy.

 

Garrison Starr: Learn the business. Learn about your business.

 

Molly Thomas: Really

 

Garrison Starr: Get to know yourself. Learn about your business. Learn how to take care of yourself because that’s, that’s the best thing. I wish that I had listened when people told me that I needed to know my business. Don’t leave it in other people’s hands. Learn your business. Know the business. Take care of that. It’s the most important thing you can do, you know. That’s what I think.

 

Gene Edwards: Well, the three of you have made this a very special space and place. Thank you.

 

Molly Thomas: Thank you for having us.

 

Garrison Starr: Thank you for having me. Thank you so much.

 

Neilson Hubbard: Thanks for having us. Thanks so much. I enjoyed it.

 

Gene Edwards: Good luck. Thank you.